Turbo Duel Academy

Welcome to our academy, this academy offers what you'll see in other academies, and MANY things that you won't see anywhere else. Come and join the fun.

Join the forum, it's quick and easy

Turbo Duel Academy

Welcome to our academy, this academy offers what you'll see in other academies, and MANY things that you won't see anywhere else. Come and join the fun.

Turbo Duel Academy

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Are you new?Post an Intro!
Portal updated on: October 5th, 2010
TDA's Bounty Hunter's Lounge: Week 13 Bounties!

5 posters

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    The Detonator
    The Detonator


    Male Posts : 1147
    Speed Credits : 850
    Reputation : 29

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by The Detonator Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:52 pm

    Often duelists get confused about whether a chain will "fizzle" the effect of a card on the field or whether a card will resolve successfully. This tutorial will explain what happens when conditions on the field change when a chain occurs and what happens to certain effects.



    There are cards and effects that can only be activated under certain conditions or used on certain targets. When a chain begins, these conditions won't always stay the same as what they were when the chain first begun. In some cases, card effects will "fizzle" and in other cases card effects will resolve normally.
    NOTE: "Fizzling" is a term used to describe a card which does not resolve successfully because of changed conditions. It is when an effect of a card simply disappears.
    It is important to be able to identify and understand what card effects will not resolve in a chain and what card effects will.




    I. Activating Conditions
    II. Targeting Conditions




    I. Activating Conditions:
    Cards can have specific conditions that sometimes need to be met before they can be activated. These conditions only need to be correct at the time that the card is activated. If these conditions change during a chain then the card's effect will still resolve successfully.

    Example #1:
    Player A has 4 cards in his/her hand.
    Chain Link 1: Player B activates Trap Dustshoot
    Chain Link 2: Player A activates Hand Destruction from his/her hand. (Making the hand = 3)
    -----Chain resolves backwards-----
    Chain Link 2: Hand Destruction resolves - Player A is left with 3 cards in his/her hand.
    Chain Link 1: Trap Dustshoot resolves successfully.

    Trap Dustshoot only requires 4 cards in the opponents hand at the time of activation. After it has been activated, if a chain occurs, the amount of cards left in your opponents hand at the end of the chain becomes irrelevant as the initial conditions to activate the card have already been met.


    II. Targeting Conditions:
    Cards can also have specific conditions regarding its target, when those conditions are no longer correct at the time the card is activated because of a chain, then the card's effect disappears and will "fizzle".
    NOTE: Card effects that "fizzle" will NOT only be cards that require a target.

    Example #2:
    Player A attacks his/her opponent directly with Mezuki.
    Chain Link 1: Player A activates Mirror Force.
    Chain Link 2: Player B activates Book of Moon
    ------Chain resolves backwards------
    Chain Link 2: Book of Moon resolves successfully - Mezuki is flipped into face-down Defense Position.
    Chain Link 1: Mirror Force does not resolve - the effect will "fizzle".

    Mirror Force's effect will destroy all face-up Attack Position monsters on the field. Now that Mezuki is face-down, when Mirror Force resolves, their are no face-up monsters to destroy and the effect simply disappears.



    Overall, the thing to look out for is:
    Does my card require and activating condition? (Example #1)
    Does my card have an effect that affects specific cards? (Example #2)

    Example #2 will be the only situation that may involve effects disappearing.

    --The Detonator--


    Last edited by The Detonator on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
    Aludra
    Aludra


    Female Posts : 356
    Speed Credits : 3991
    Location : Paris Van Java
    Reputation : 12

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Aludra Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:30 am

    When there is face-up "remove brainwashing" on the field, and "Dark Necrofear" on the field is destroyed, and it's eff active targeting one of my opponent's face-up monster to control, What will gonna happen??
    cz remove brainwashing eff :
    As long as this card remains face-up on the field, the control of all monsters on the field returns to the original owners

    and dark necrofear eff
    I just found it, It's different effect explanation on wikia and KCvds
    In Kcvds there'is statement like this
    as long as it's equipped with this card, you control the equiped monster.
    while on In wikia not,
    The Detonator
    The Detonator


    Male Posts : 1147
    Speed Credits : 850
    Reputation : 29

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by The Detonator Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:56 am

    @ Aludra,
    I believe the following scenario will occur, however I am not 100% but I'm pretty sure this will happen.


    Player A has Remove Brainwashing face-up on the field. Player B's Dark Necrofear has just been destroyed and sent to the Graveyard.

    1). Dark Necrofear's effect activates.
    2). Player B targets a monster on Player A's side of the field and takes control of it (Dark Necrofear is equipped to the monster).
    3). Remove Brainwashing activates (because a monster has changed from one side of the field to another).
    4). Remove Brainwashing will nullify the effects of Dark Necrofear and control of the face-up monster reverts back to its original owner. (Dark Necrofear's effect fizzles but will stay equipped to the monster).

    --The Detonator--
    Aludra
    Aludra


    Female Posts : 356
    Speed Credits : 3991
    Location : Paris Van Java
    Reputation : 12

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Aludra Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:15 am

    yes, I of course it will happen, cz I plan to build deck that includes dark necrofear and remove brainwashing Razz

    hmm ur explanation makes senses It's probably like that
    but how it will gonna happen if it's vice-versa??

    my necrofear eff resolves 1st,,
    and after necrofear succesfully targets one monster and switch it's sides,
    then somehow I activates remove brainwashing or even Owners Seal without performing a chain with necrofear, @.@ I'm confused
    The Detonator
    The Detonator


    Male Posts : 1147
    Speed Credits : 850
    Reputation : 29

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by The Detonator Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:34 am

    SO if you control Dark Necrofear and Remove Brainwashing.

    Once again i'm not 100% sure because of the way Dark Necrofear is worded but I would say the same thing would happen, if Dark Necrofear is equipped to something, a card like Remove Brainwashing should revert control of the monster back to the owners side of the field and nullify Dark Necrofear's effect.

    --The Detonator--
    Aludra
    Aludra


    Female Posts : 356
    Speed Credits : 3991
    Location : Paris Van Java
    Reputation : 12

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Aludra Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:49 am

    Ok thxa lot,
    because u're even not 100% sure,,
    I will avoid that,
    The Detonator
    The Detonator


    Male Posts : 1147
    Speed Credits : 850
    Reputation : 29

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by The Detonator Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:56 am

    Yeah a bit of research should be made in this. If anyone canhelp it would be appreciated.

    --The Detonator--
    Aludra
    Aludra


    Female Posts : 356
    Speed Credits : 3991
    Location : Paris Van Java
    Reputation : 12

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Aludra Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:39 pm

    But I think ur opinion was right, because in wikia there's no word like this

    as long as it's equipped with this card, you control the equiped monster.

    but it's effect like this

    This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card can only be Special Summoned by removing from play 3 Fiend-Type monsters in your Graveyard. If this card is destroyed by battle, or by your opponent's card effect while it is a Monster Card, equip it to a monster your opponent controls during the End Phase of this turn. Take control of the equipped monster.

    theres no words like "as long as it's equipped with this card"

    maybe it's deleted because It will makes problem like I said before,,
    overd0se.KayKay
    overd0se.KayKay


    Male Posts : 200
    Speed Credits : 2611
    Location : Germany
    Reputation : 0

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by overd0se.KayKay Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:01 pm

    Necrofear will stay on the field. And the monster goes back/stays on its side.
    Gothicmess
    Gothicmess


    Male Posts : 341
    Speed Credits : 1376
    Reputation : 3

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Gothicmess Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:06 pm

    I don think it's the same effect as "Snatch steal" targeting a Machine type, while you have Cyber Phoenix on the field, according to a judges past ruling.

    "If you were to make a play that will result in an endless loop without chain resolution, it will be considered a violation of game rules"

    This is how the scenarion turned out before the ruling.

    1. Player A activates "Snatch steal" on the Machine monster, the monster is taken to Player A's side of the field.

    2. Player B's Phoneix will return the Equiped monster due to it's continuous effect after "Snatch steal" has resolved.

    And back to step 1

    Note the no card is chained to each other.

    In other words, if your car would make an endless loop, you are obligated not to activate the effect, I dont know if this can be done while the effect is compulsory.

    In best case scenarion, Your Necrofear will stay on the field until the selected target is removed from the field.
    Aludra
    Aludra


    Female Posts : 356
    Speed Credits : 3991
    Location : Paris Van Java
    Reputation : 12

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Aludra Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:50 am

    hmm, thanx for all of your explanation,,
    lokyed
    lokyed


    Male Posts : 5
    Speed Credits : 0
    Location : Mexicali B.C- Mexico
    Reputation : 0

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by lokyed Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:07 pm

    I have a question xD,the card is Widespread Dud:

    Select 2 face-up Attack Position monsters on the field. When any of the selected monsters are removed from the field, destroy this card. When this card is destroyed, destroy the selected monster(s).

    Widespread Dud targets the 2 face-up monsters and the effect to destroy the targeted monsters does not start a Chain
    So Stardust Dragon it cannot negate this card's effect

    I think it is like when a monster card equipment is destroyed in battle, what happens with the equipment?, Its like this? xD

    How can i know when a card does not start a Chain?


    The Detonator
    The Detonator


    Male Posts : 1147
    Speed Credits : 850
    Reputation : 29

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by The Detonator Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:41 am

    The reason why Stardust Dragon cannot negate the "activation and effect" of widespread dud is because widespread dud does not have the ability to destroy cards at its activation. Only when it is removed from the field or if one of the monsters cards are removed from the field.

    When it is removed from the field, it does not use the chain since it has already been activated and is just lingering until its second effect is triggered. So, it doesnt get "re-activated" to start a chain, all that happens is its second effect resolves as it leave the field, not starting a chain.

    --The Detonator--
    lokyed
    lokyed


    Male Posts : 5
    Speed Credits : 0
    Location : Mexicali B.C- Mexico
    Reputation : 0

    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by lokyed Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:10 pm

    thanks Very Happy

    Sponsored content


    Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay) Empty Re: Activation and Targetting (Expert Gameplay)

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon May 13, 2024 11:11 am