TK with "Negaters" Ruling Cross

This happened revently in Europe World Qualifiers so I'm putting this.

If you control Thunder King Rai-oh and Doomcaliber/Ladd and you attack to sangan or darksoul, doomcaliber STILL tributes itself to negate even though TK is present. (same goes for ladds 500 atk/def)

This is because the effect is mandatory, the effect must activate, and if a condition prevents it from resolving then it will fizzle but the activation still must take place regardless.

Like you said, Doom Calibur and Light and Darkness Dragon will react as usual.

--The Detonator--

If a Sangan is destroyed and sent to the grave when a Rai-Oh is on the field, the effect doesn't fizzle, it gets negated. Doesn't really matter that much, but...yeah...

No it does, thats why you lose your Caliber or LaDD

Caliber and LADD will try to negate sangan at the same time, thereby Caliber will tribute itself, and LADD will lose 500 atk.

This is different with Darksoul. if Darksoul was sent while TKR was on the field. and then TKR dies, Darksoul still activates during the End Phase. I don't know about LADD and Caliber though. But TKR needs to be on the field during the End Phase, for it to negate Darksoul. Not only that, Darksouls effect stacks, which is a little nice attribute to it.

caliber and ladd only have to pay both if they were chained wrong...

if its:

1: sangan
2: LaDD
3: DCK

Resolving:

3:DCK's eff vanishes since it isnt chained to sangan directly.
DCK's effect doesnt target, so the effect monster that will be negated by dck needs to be directly under it in the chain.
But dont forget DCK is still destroyed, since it gets tributed to activate its eff and activating and resolving are 2 different things (the tribute is the cost of activating the eff)
2: ladd looses 500 atk/def and negates sangans eff
1: negated


the way without loosing both is this one:

1:sangan
2:DCK
3:LaDD

resolving:

3: LaDD was chained to sangans effect but is in chainlink 3.
So it wont be able to negate sangan, since its not directly under it in the chain.
And if LaDD doesnt negate, it doesnt loose atk and def.
2: DCKs eff will activate and negate sangans eff
1: negated



rulings bout that :

If you have 2 or more “Light and Darkness Dragon” face-up on your side of the field when a Spell, Trap, or effect of an Effect Monster is activated, the effect of each “Light and Darkness Dragon” form a Chain, but only the effect of the “Light and Darkness Dragon” chained directly to the activated Spell, Trap, or effect of an Effect Monster will resolve. The other “Light and Darkness Dragon” on the Chain will not negate the activation of the Spell, Trap, or effect of the Effect Monster and they will not lose any ATK or DEF from their effect

So now we take the TKR Darksoul and LADD situation

chain 1: darksouls eff activates
chain 2: LaDD wants to negate it

resolving
2: LaDD negates Darksoul and looses atk/def
1: negated


TKR isnt in this chain because continuous effect monsters dont chain.
If LaDD wouldnt be there it would be like :

darksouls mandatory eff get activated, but thunder king raioh will prevent to get a card from the deck to the hand unless its drawn.
So Darksouls eff just vanishes.

So Darksouls eff just vanishes.

but even though it vanishes, LaDD OR!!! Caliber will still pay

didnt say that they wont, as i stated if ladd wouldnt be there, as in being in that situation.
The Effect of Darksoul will activate either way since its mandatory, and ladd or caliber have to negate it.
That happens before darksoul tries to resolve... as soon as he is able to resolve TKR kicks in, but that happens only if caliber or ladd arent removed somehow from the field.
So having TKR and caliber on the field doesnt to anything good in this situation

Umm, Sil, we're talking about the same thing. But nvm

Result and Summary: You have to tribute Doomcaliber to kill sangan even if TK is on the field.

Ruby wrote:No it does, thats why you lose your Caliber or LaDD

I didn't say Sangan doesn't activate. I just said after it activates, when it resolves the effect doesn't fizzle, but it gets negated.

Darksoul's effect activates and resolves when it's sent to the graveyard. It never activates in the endphase.

I have no idea what Sil was trying to say, but if you attack a Darksoul with Doomcaliber, Darksoul's effect will activate when it's sent to the graveyard, and DCK will tribute itself to negate it. No card is searched. Same with ladd except it loses 500 atk/def instead of the tributing part.

So that everyone doesn't keep repeating the same things over and over in a spam-fest this will be locked. The ruling has been stated a number of times by different people already.

~Locked

--The Detonator--