2 more question from me :P

1. Why does Gorz and Trago can't be summoned during the same damage step?

2. If my opponent have arcana force XXI - The World, and then in my turn i use brain control to gain control of him, can i activate it's effect to make my opponent skip his turn?

1) when u take damage from your opponent, Gorz and Trago in your hand can available to summon.... u can choose between those two who wanna be special summoned, if u choose Gorz, so Gorz will be summoned and end damage step.... then the trago didnt have a chance to be special summoned again......
Yeah, its just in My Opinion, CMIIW.

2) i dunno... but i think it can since arcana is yours....
( hyahweh, where are u? i didnt see u again in ham, whats going on?)

I'm not sure about the 1st, so I'll skip to the second.

In the second one, yes you can activate effect of The World, then give it to your opponent.

1. dunno

2. well u can
u can choose to use its effect first or give the arcana


@Tyann his name is Sensoku thingy

hmm....
really?
i wonder since it's an ignition effect that happens in the end phase D:

what does ignition mean :S
what i know this is same case like LS monsters

@William
Ignition effect are like "Once per turn" effect.... You can use an ignition effect with any cost or not, depend on your monster's effect..... And Ignition effect are still can use even if you just summoning your monster, in that case u must call a priority before use da effect...

HyawehHoshikawa wrote:1. Why does Gorz and Trago can't be summoned during the same damage step?

2. If my opponent have arcana force XXI - The World, and then in my turn i use brain control to gain control of him, can i activate it's effect to make my opponent skip his turn?

During the Damage Step, Gorz and Tragoedia both activate during substep 5: after damage calculation. Because both of these effects are optional Trigger Effects they technically activate at the same time and should follow simultaneous effects go on chain rulings. However, their is an extra ruling that has been created during the Damage Step that does not allow for this to happen.

During the Damage Step when you take Battle Damage, every chain is treated independently, rulings that involve simultaneous effects going on the chain controlled by the same player do not occur. So you select to activate one of Tragoedia or Gorz's effects and your opponent gets a brief chance to respond. When a player does not respond during a chain in this substep the chain moves to resolve immediately. Then another chain can occur and the same process happens. Of course, if player A controlled a Trigger effect and player B also controlled an Trigger effect both activating after Damage Calculation these effects are able to follow the simultaneous effects go on the chain rules. Here are 2 breakdown examples of what i have said with 2 different scenarios.

Player B attacks Player A with Dimensional Alchemist, Damage Calculation occurs.
(Player A can activate Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness or Tragoedia as Chain Link 1)
Chain Link 1: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
(Player A now wants to activate Tragoedia as Chain Link 2, but this substep does not allow the player to place 2 links on the same chain immediately).
Player B does not respond.
(Player B has no response so the chain moves to resolution immediately)
Chain Link 1 resolves: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness is Special Summoned and its effect to Summon a token activates
NEW CHAIN
Chain Link 1: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
(This substep does not allow the Player A to place another link on the same chain immediately)
Player B does not respond.
(Player B has no response so the chain moves to resolution immediately)
Chain Link 1 resolves: A token is Special Summoned to the field

Scenario 2: Trigger Effects controlled by different players

Player B attacks Player A with Spirit Reaper, Damage Calculation occurs.
Chain Link 1: Spirit Reapers Mandatory Trigger Effect.
(This substep does not allow the Player B to place another link on the same chain immediately)
(Player A can now activate Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness or Tragoedia as Chain Link 2)
Chain Link 2: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
(Player A now wants to activate Tragoedia as Chain Link 3, but this substep does not allow the player to place 2 links on the same chain immediately).
Player B does not respond.
(Player B has no response so the chain moves to resolution immediately)
Chain Link 2 resolves: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness is Special Summoned and its effect to Summon a token activates but cannot interrupt the chain and wait until the chain finishes resolving.
Chain Link 1 resolves: A card is discarded from Player A's hand.
NEW CHAIN
Chain Link 1: Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
(This substep does not allow the Player A to place another link on the same chain immediately)
Player B does not respond.
(Player B has no response so the chain moves to resolution immediately)
Chain Link 1 resolves: A token is Special Summoned to the field



As for your second question, you choose which cards to resolve/activate first at the End Phase. You get a chance to use the effect of Arcana before you return it to your opponent. Also the Arcana Force monster is not an Ignition Effect. It is a Trigger Effect that activates as soon as you enter the End Phase.

Hope Question 1 helps with the very difficult substep of Damage Calculation.

Hyaweh, any more questions? If not, topic locked when you confirm. Nice answer, Det ^^

Nope. the Bomb has cleared the question xD
so the answer is because in substep 5 each player can only activate one effect :O.

you can lock this question crescent

Not exactly, in substep 5, each player can only activate 1 chain link before the opponent places the next chain link. You can have a chain of more than 2 links but each player must take turns in placing chain links.

When a player does not want to place a chain link you move to resolution immediately

iam with ned thats true

The Detonator wrote:Not exactly, in substep 5, each player can only activate 1 chain link before the opponent places the next chain link. You can have a chain of more than 2 links but each player must take turns in placing chain links.

When a player does not want to place a chain link you move to resolution immediately

so If Chain Link 1 is Gorz...then Chain Link 2 the opponent activate random Counter Trap...and then you can Chain Link 3 Traged??

no, because besides everything, counter trap is speed 3 so only other counters can be chained

Ruby wrote:no, because besides everything, counter trap is speed 3 so only other counters can be chained

so it can be managed only if the spell speed of the Chain Link 2 is Spell Speed 1 (which cannot be conduct)

Or speed 2, because Gorz and Trag are quick effects, so they are Speed 2 too

Ruby wrote:Or speed 2, because Gorz and Trag are quick effects, so they are Speed 2 too

and i thought they have a normal trigger effect which means spell speed 1...how could I know a quick effect when i see one?? (I mean of a monster)

Usually, if it can be activated in enemy turn, its quick. If not sure, check wikia

No Gorz and Tragoedia are not Quick Effects. They are Trigger Effects of Spell Speed 1. They can be activated in the Damage Step due to their effect text and are an exception to the rule because of that.

Yes you can use a Counter Trap in response to Gorz but since Counter Traps are Spell Speed 3 card you cannot chain a Spell Speed 1 card (Tragoedia).

Alright, now the questions are answered and the topic is locked